基姆戈顿希望美国总统读一读朋克历史

The musician and author of the memoir “Girl in a Band” is a fan of Joan Didion: “How cool is it that Céline chose her for their new ad campaign? I want those sunglasses.”

乐手、回忆录《乐队中的女孩》(Girl in a Band)的作者基姆·戈顿(Kim Gordon)喜欢琼·迪迪安(Joan Didion)：“赛琳(Céline)选她来做新的广告宣传真是太酷了，我想买那些太阳镜。”

What books are currently on your night stand?

你的床头柜上现在正放着什么书？

“The Argonauts,” by Maggie Nelson, and “Becoming Westerly,” by Jamie Brisick. Jamie’s book is a biography of a famous Australian surfer who’s transgender, man to woman, and still surfs. Jamie is shooting a documentary on her now. I also have Jo Nesbo’s latest, “Police.” I’ve read all the others in the series. I’m learning about Norway’s relationship with the Nazis and a lot of other things about that country. I like the protagonist, Harry Hole; it’s a ridiculous name, but it works. He’s grizzled, alcoholic, surrounded by a lot of corruption, so he’s working against the police and trying to find the serial killer at the same time.

麦琪·尼尔逊(Maggie Nelson)的《阿尔戈英雄》(The Argonauts)，以及杰米·布里希克(Jamie Brisick)的《成为韦斯特利》(Becoming Westerly)。杰米的书是为一个著名跨性别澳大利亚冲浪运动员写的传记，她从男人成为女人，杰米现在正在给她拍纪录片。我还有约·奈斯博(Jo Nesbo)最新的著作《警察》(Police)，这个系列的其他书我都读过，从中了解到挪威和纳粹的关系，以及很多关于这个国家的事情。我喜欢书里的主人公哈利·霍尔(Harry Hole)，这是个可笑的名字，但是很有作用。他头发花白，酗酒，身边有很多腐败现象，于是他努力反对警察，与此同时还要努力找出连环杀手。

Who is your favorite novelist of all time? Your favorite novel?

你一直以来最喜欢的小说家是哪一位？最喜欢的小说呢？

I don’t have a favorite, but I like the way Jonathan Lethem writes about music, and in one of his books he has an amazing description of a band practicing. Mary Gaitskill is another one. She introduced modern female sexuality into contemporary literature. I also love Henry James and Gustave Flaubert, who wrote the first feminist novel in “Madame Bovary.” I love that period of literature; it’s like hyper-elegant gossip. I like James’s mysterious and detailed writing, and how he’s not afraid of taboo subjects. Of course I’ve always liked Philip K. Dick.

我没有最喜欢的小说家，不过我喜欢乔纳森·勒瑟姆(Jonathan Lethem)写音乐的方式，他有一本书里精彩地描写了乐队的事情。玛丽·盖茨基尔(Mary Gaitskill)也是一位。她把现代女性的性生活引入了当代文学。我也喜欢亨利·詹姆斯(Henry James)和居斯塔夫·福楼拜(Gustave Flaubert)，《包法利夫人》(Madame Bovary)是第一部女性主义小说。我喜欢那段时期的文学，就像兴奋而优美的闲谈。还有詹姆斯神秘而充满细节的写作，他不害怕触碰禁忌题材。当然我也一直都喜欢菲利普·K·迪克(Philip K. Dick)。

Whom do you consider the best writers — novelists, songwriters, journalists, poets — working today?

你觉得当今最好的作家是谁——小说家、词曲作者、记者，诗人都算。

For poetry, Ariana Reines and Elaine Kahn. They’re both risk takers. For music, I like Stephen Malkmus, and also Sibylle Baier. I really love Baier’s sweetly melancholy melodies. She wrote one record, and it’s stunningly beautiful. Hilton Als is so intuitive — he writes from the heart and the head at the same time. I’m a recent convert to Joan Didion, whom I’ve been meaning to read for years and finally got around to. She’s a woman writing in a man’s world, but her voice isn’t girlish, but it’s not a man’s either. How cool is it that Céline chose her for their new ad campaign? I want those sunglasses.

在诗歌方面是亚丽安娜·莱尼斯(Ariana Reines)和伊莱娜·卡恩(Elaine Kahn)。两人都是冒险者。在音乐方面，我喜欢史蒂芬·马尔科马斯(Stephen Malkmus)，还有西比尔·贝尔(Sibylle Baier)。我喜欢贝尔甜美忧伤的旋律。她创作了一张唱片，非常美。希尔顿·埃尔斯(Hilton Als)的直觉很好，他的写作发自内心，也很有头脑。最近我迷上了琼·迪迪安，好多年来我一直都想读她写的东西，最后终于有空了。她是一个在男性世界中写作的女人，但她的声音既不女孩子气，也不像男人。赛琳(Céline)选她来做新的广告宣传真是太酷了，我想买那些太阳镜。”

What’s the best book about music you’ve ever read? About art or design?

你读过的最好的关于音乐的书是什么，关于艺术或设计的书呢？

“I’m With the Band,” by Pamela Des Barres. Why is that the best book? Because it is. Also, “Mystery Train,” by Greil Marcus was very inspirational to me, and so was “Jack Goldstein and the CalArts Mafia,” which described a crazy time in the art world in the 1980s where everyone felt weirded out by their success. I felt like such an outsider myself back then, but it turns out it was an angst-ridden time for everyone. I also love John Kelsey’s art writing — he’s one of the smartest people I know in the art world.

帕米拉·德斯·巴里斯(Pamela Des Barres)的《我和乐队在一起》(I’m With the Band)，为什么觉得它是最好的书呢，因为它就是。另外，格雷尔·马库斯(Greil Marcus)的《神秘列车》(Mystery Train)也很有启发，还有《杰克·戈德斯坦与加州艺术学院帮派》(Jack Goldstein and the CalArts Mafia)，它描写20世纪80年代艺术界一个疯狂的时刻，所有人都对他们的成功感到奇怪。当时我觉得自己是个局外人，但最后那段时间变成一个对于每个人来说都充满焦虑的时刻。我也喜欢约翰·凯尔塞(John Kelsey)的艺术写作，他是艺术界我认识的最聪明的人之一。

What genres do you especially enjoy reading? And which do you avoid?

你喜欢读什么类型小说呢，你不会读什么书呢？

I enjoy crime and mystery; there’s something so filmic about the writing. There’s no character as good or as innovative as Lisbeth Salander in the Stieg Larsson series, but I keep looking. I avoid books on mathematics.

我喜欢犯罪小说和神秘小说；书里有种电影般的感觉。莉斯·莎兰德(Lisbeth Salander)的斯蒂格·兰森(Stieg Larsson)系列里的人物最精彩，最有新意，不过我还在继续看。我从来不读和数学有关的书。

What books might we be surprised to find on your shelves?

我们会在你的书架上惊奇地找到什么书呢？

I have a Martha Stewart book from the ’70s where she’s posing on the cover with a bunch of hunky construction workers. I think I still have a book called “Yes, Your Teen Is Crazy!” that I must have bought at one point.

我有一本玛莎·斯图尔特(Martha Stewart)70年代写的书，封面上是她和一堆匈牙利建筑工人。我想那本书可能叫《对，你的青春很疯狂！》(Yes, Your Teen Is Crazy!)，肯定是我什么时候买下来的。

Who’s your favorite literary heroine?

你最喜欢的小说女主人公是？

Chris Kraus’s “I Love Dick” and Cayce Pollard in “Pattern Recognition,” by William Gibson. Cayce is known as a “coolhunter,” and she’s described in the book as being allergic to fashion. I can maybe relate to both those things. As a visual person I’m interested in the engine of fashion and ad copy, and I like clothes — but I’m not really a part of it. You didn’t ask me who my favorite made-up hero is. Tim Riggins, the fullback for the Dillon Panthers.

威廉·吉布森(William Gibson)的《模式识别》(Pattern Recognition)里的克里斯·克劳斯(Chris Kraus)和凯西·波兰德(Cayce Pollard)。凯西是个“冷酷猎手”，书里说她极度讨厌时尚。这两样我也沾边。作为一个喜欢视觉的人，我对时尚机制和广告业感兴趣，我也喜欢衣服——但我并不是它的一部分。你还没问我最喜欢的虚构男主人公是谁。是蒂姆·罗金斯(Tim Riggins)，迪里昂黑豹队里的后卫（来自电影Friday Night Lights——译注）。

If you could live inside the world of any work of fiction, which would it be and why?

如果你能生活在小说里的世界，会是哪一部小说呢，为什么？

“Dissident Gardens,” by Jonathan Lethem. It covers 80 years in New York, and so many different scenes. I hadn’t really known about Sunnyside Gardens as a planned retirement community, and also a Communist stronghold.

乔纳森·勒瑟姆的《异见花园》(Dissident Gardens)，它涵盖了纽约的80年，描写了许多场景。我从来不知道阳光花园被规划为退休者社区，也是一个共产主义者们的据点。

What kind of reader were you as a child? Your favorite books and authors?

你小时候喜欢读什么书？那时候最喜欢的书和作者是什么？

“A Wrinkle in Time,” by Madeleine L’Engle. I also liked the Nancy Drew books — I guess I was always into mystery from the start. I also loved “Winnie-the-Pooh,” and used to play records with an English actor narrating them.

我喜欢玛德琳·英格(Madeleine L’Engle)的《转瞬之间》(A Wrinkle in Time)还有南希·德鲁(Nancy Drew)的书——我知道我从小就喜欢神秘的东西。我也喜欢《小熊维尼》(Winnie-the-Pooh)，还听过一个英国演员讲小熊维尼故事的录音。

If you had to name one book that made you who you are today, what would it be?

如果说出一本令你成为现在的样子的书，会是什么书呢？

“The Lonely Doll,” by Dare Wright. It was my first view, my first idea, of New York as a glamorous place. I also really liked the doll’s pink-and-white-checked apron and the general air of existential blankness. When I tried to read it to my daughter, Coco, I thought, “This is so dark and terrifying.” But I’ve met many women who were influenced by that book. Another is T. J. Clark’s “Image of the People: Gustave Courbet and the 1848 Revolution,” which is all about the social context of artists like Courbet and Manet. It taught me how to read paintings in a new way. It’s out of print, and it shouldn’t be.

戴尔·怀特(Dare Wright)的《孤独的娃娃》(The Lonely Doll)，这是我第一次读到关于纽约的书，第一次觉得纽约是个迷人的地方。我喜欢那个娃娃粉白格的围裙，还有那种关乎存在的空虚。后来我试着给女儿可可(Coco)读这本书的时候，我觉得：“这太黑暗，太可怕了。”但我遇到很多女人，她们都受这本书影响。还有一本是T·J·克拉克(T.J. Clark)的《人民的肖像：古斯塔夫·库尔贝与1848革命》(Image of the People: Gustave Courbet and the 1848 Revolution)，它讲述库尔贝和莫奈等艺术家的社会背景。它教会我如何以一种新的方式来理解绘画。这本书现在已经绝版了，真不应该。

If you could require the president to read one book, what would it be?

如果你能要求总统读一本书，会是什么呢？

“Please Kill Me: The Uncensored Oral History of Punk,” by Legs McNeil and Gillian McCain. The president probably hasn’t read a book about punk history.

《请宰了我：未经审查的朋克口述史》(Please Kill Me: The Uncensored Oral History of Punk)，是莱格斯·麦克尼尔(Legs McNeil)和吉里安·麦凯恩(Gillian McCain)写的。总统可能没读过关于朋克历史的书。

You’re hosting a literary dinner party. Which three writers are invited?

如果你能主持一场文学晚餐会，会请哪三位作家出席呢？

Keith Richards, RZA and Amy Poehler. I think Amy would definitely dominate, because she’s so good at improv.

基思·理查兹(Keith Richards)、RZA和艾米·波勒(Amy Poehler)，我觉得艾米肯定很显眼，因为她很擅长即兴发挥。

Disappointing, overrated, just not good: What book did you feel you were supposed to like, and didn’t? Do you remember the last book you put down without finishing?

令人失望、被高估，不怎么样：有没有什么书是你觉得本来可能会喜欢，但最后却不喜欢的？你还记得上一本没能读完的书是什么吗？

There are a lot of books I’ve started but haven’t finished, too many to count. I bring books along on tours, and start them three or four times, then forget about them. It’s never the book’s fault.

有很多书我都没能读完，数不过来。我带着书去巡演，拿起来读两三次，就把它们忘到一边了，这不是这些书的错。

What book hasn’t been written that you’d like to read?

有没有什么书是你想读，但目前却还没写出来的？

Is this a trick question?

这是个恶作剧的问题吗？

What books do you find yourself returning to again and again?

有没有什么书是你会一再重读的？

Didion’s “The White Album.” I love the period of time in California she writes about, since it’s one I don’t know all that well. She’s both an insider and a critical outsider. She’s bearing witness to an era. She writes about things I think about a lot, like Southern California’s suburban deadness. I love the title, too — it’s sort of genius.

迪迪安的《白色专辑》(The White Album)。我喜欢她写的那个时代的加利福尼亚，因为那段时间我不是特别了解。她既是内部人士，也能站在外部做出批评。她见证了一个时代。她写的是那些我经常思考的东西，比如南加州城郊的死气沉沉的状态。我也喜欢这个书名——简直是天才。

What books are you embarrassed not to have read yet?

有没有什么书你至今没读过，对此感到很尴尬？

“Infinite Jest.”

《无尽的玩笑》(Infinite Jest)。

What do you plan to read next?

接下来你要读什么书？

“Why Love Hurts,” by Eva Illouz. It’s a sociology book I thought I would check out. The back cover describes it as “the indispensable book on the social power and meaning of sex and love.” Who wouldn’t want to read that?

伊娃·伊鲁兹(Eva Illouz)的《爱为何令人痛苦》(Why Love Hurts)。这是一本社会学书籍，我会看看的。封底上说它是“一本必不可少的书，阐述性与爱的社会力量与意义”。谁不想读这样的书呢？