好莱坞的女性问题 听听布兰切特们怎么说

Carol, Laurel, Jules, Therese, Maud. These are just a few of the lead characters in a fall season that is by all accounts a big one for female-driven movies.

卡罗尔、劳瑞尔、朱尔斯、塞莱斯、莫德。这些仅仅是今年秋天出现在大屏幕上的女性主角中的一小部分，看起来这毫无疑问是由女性唱主角的一季。

“Freeheld,” based on a documentary, stars Julianne Moore as the terminally ill New Jersey police detective Laurel Hester, who becomes an advocate for gay rights when government officials prevent her from assigning her pension benefits to her domestic partner (played by Ellen Page). Based on a Patricia Highsmith novel, “Carol” is a 1950s melodrama with Cate Blanchett as the married title character and Rooney Mara as her lover, Therese, that has already won accolades at Cannes. “Suffragette” tells the little-known story of the militant women’s emancipation movement in England, directed and written by women, with Carey Mulligan as Maud, a foot soldier in the fight. “The Intern,” directed by Nancy Meyers, follows Jules (Anne Hathaway), an Internet entrepreneur struggling to manage her company’s success with the help of an intern (Robert De Niro) who’s a senior citizen.

《被拒人生》(Freeheld)根据纪录片改编，由朱丽安·摩尔(Julianne Moore)主演，讲述癌症末期的新泽西州女警官劳瑞尔·海斯特(Laurel Hester)的故事，政府官员拒绝她将退休津贴转让给同性伴侣（艾伦·佩吉[Ellen Page]饰演），于是她成了同性恋权利的维权者。《卡罗尔》(Carol)是一部根据派翠西亚·海史密斯(Patricia Highsmith)的小说改编的传奇剧情片，发生在20世纪50年代，凯特·布兰切特(Cate Blanchett)饰演已婚的主角卡罗尔，鲁妮·玛拉(Rooney Mara)饰演她的情人特蕾丝(Therese)，该片在戛纳电影节上备受好评。《妇女参政论者》(Suffragette)讲述了英格兰激进的女性运动中一个罕为人知的故事，导演和编剧都是女性，凯瑞·穆里根(Carey Mulligan)饰演斗争中的先锋莫德。南希·迈耶斯(Nancy Meyers)执导的《实习生》(Nacy Meyers)讲述朱尔斯（安妮·海瑟薇[Anne Hathaway]饰）的故事，她是一个互联网公司老板，在年老的实习生（罗伯特·德尼罗[Robert De Niro]饰）帮助下带领公司取得成功。

And there are more — “Brooklyn,” “Truth” and “Sisters,” to name a few. All are garnering attention, some are even the subject of Oscar talk, and yet their very existence is still a rarity in Hollywood.

此外还有其他一些，诸如《布鲁克林》(Brooklyn)、《真相》(Truth)和《姐妹》(Sisters)。它们都获得了一定关注，有些甚至有获得奥斯卡奖的可能，然而它们在好莱坞仍然属于异数。

From 2007 through 2014, women made up only 30.2 percent of all speaking or named characters in the 100 top-grossing fictional films distributed in the United States, according to a report released in August by the University of Southern California. Only 19.9 percent of female characters were 40 to 64 years old. Only 1.9 percent of the movies were directed by women. And the numbers for minority women are even worse.

南加利福尼亚大学今年8月公布的一项报告表明，从2007年到2014年，在美国票房居前100位的影片中，女性角色只占有名字或有台词的角色的30.2%。只有19.9%的女性角色在40岁到64岁之间。只有1.9%的电影是由女人执导的。少数族裔女性的统计数据就更糟。

The movie industry is “failing women,” Manohla Dargis of The Times has said.

电影工业正在“挫败女人”，时报影评人曼诺拉·达吉斯(Manohla Dargis)写道。

Is this fall’s crop an exception or a possible sign of a shift afoot? Certainly there are no major films built around women of color on the horizon. So we asked actresses, writers and directors (including a few men) from forthcoming films about what’s changed, what needs to change and how. They didn’t always agree, and the subject won’t be settled anytime soon.

今秋的这批影片是例外，抑或是转变的征兆？显然，目前没有任何重要影片是围绕有色人种女性建立的。所以我们采访了一些参与上述即将上映的影片中的女演员、编剧和导演（包括部分男性），请他们回答关于目前有何改变、有什么需要改变，以及如何改变等问题。他们意见并不完全一致，这个问题也无法很快得到解决。

Here are excerpts from those conversations:

下面是对话节选：

Are women in Hollywood unfairly denied opportunities to act, direct, write and produce?

在好莱坞，女性是否受到了不公正的待遇，被剥夺了演出、导演、写作和制作的机会？

JULIANNE MOORE I’ve had a lot of luck in my career and I’ve worked with a lot of really wonderful directors, so I can’t complain. When people start putting this on the entertainment business, I’m like, “Wait a minute, this is endemic to our culture at large.” [However,] sometimes I read a script and there’s only one female in it. That’s not what my world looks like. I have days where the only men I see are my husband and my teenage son, but the rest of the day, I go to my yoga class, I see a female friend for lunch, I talk to my female manager on the phone. So how is that even possible?

朱丽安·摩尔：我很幸运，在事业生涯中能与那么多优秀的导演合作，所以我不能抱怨什么。每当人们提出娱乐业内存在这样的问题，我总会说：“等一下，这是我们整个文化中的通病。”（不过）有时候我读某些剧本，发现里面只有一个女性角色。这不是我的世界真实的样子。有时候，我确实每天只能看到我丈夫和我十几岁的儿子，但大多数日子里，我去上瑜伽课、我去和女朋友吃午饭、我和我的女经纪人在电话里谈事情。所以只有一个女人这怎么可能？

CATE BLANCHETT I do think there’s a sense in the industry, and in most industries, that a woman can’t screw up. Look at the number of second-time male directors: If for some reason their film doesn’t do well, in eight to 12 months they’re back in there again, someone backs them. It’s always on the marketing schedule that a woman has directed the film, which on one hand you want to celebrate, but on the other does put a remarkable amount of pressure on, is it going to work? So the numbers people go into it with their arms slightly crossed, and I think that has an impact on the courage of a woman’s creative expression.

凯特·布兰切特：我确实认为，这个行业，乃至大多数行业里都有这样一种意识，那就是女人不能失败。看看有多少东山再起的男导演吧：如果出于什么原因，他们的电影没拍好，八个月到12个月之内他们就会卷土重来，总有人支持他们。在市场营销计划里，总有女人执导的电影，一方面你应该为此庆祝，但是另一方面，也很有压力，这部片子能成功吗？所以负责搞数字统计的人都有点持怀疑态度，我觉得这会影响女人搞创作的勇气。

ELLEN PAGE Absolutely, women and all minorities [are denied opportunities], African-American men, African-American women, trans men, trans women, the list goes on.

艾伦·佩奇：没错，女人和各种少数群体（机会都很少），非裔美国男人、非裔美国女人、变性男人、变性女人，这个名单还很长。

MICHAEL SHANNON, CO-STAR, “FREEHELD” They say it’s harder for women in this business, and maybe there is a narrower window of opportunity, but I think it’s a hard life for anybody. I know a lot of guys who are sitting there with their thumbs up their butts. It’s hard, but some of the most exciting actors right now are women. I’ve worked with a lot of really strong women, Jessica Chastain, Julie, Ellen.

迈克尔·珊农(Michael Shannon)，《被拒人生》主演之一：他们说女人在这个行业里的处境变得更加艰难了，或许她们的机会变得更少了，但我想所有人的生活都很艰难。我认识很多怀才不遇的家伙。这很困难。但是现在有些最棒的演员确实是女人。我和很多很棒的女人共事过：杰西卡·查斯坦(Jessica Chastain)、朱丽、艾伦。

ABI MORGAN, SCREENWRITER, “SUFFRAGETTE” When the Sony hacking scandal revealed that there is huge disparity in pay for women, it made me question why don’t I get offered those action movies.

艾比·摩根(Abi Morgan)，《妇女参政论者》编剧：索尼黑客丑闻暴露出男女薪酬的巨大悬殊，这让我质疑，我为什么不能得到编写那些动作片剧本的机会。

ANNE HATHAWAY I’ve for many years tried to tell myself I wasn’t treated differently because I was a woman. And I just thought maybe if I say these things they will be true. I wish they were, but they’re not.

安妮·海瑟薇：多年来我一直告诉自己，我没有因为自己是女人而受到特殊对待。我想也许我一直这么说，这样的事就能成真。我希望这是真的，但并不是。

Can women be unlikable on screen?

银幕上的女性形象可以是"不可爱"的吗？

MOORE I think there is a time in a person’s life, probably age 6, when they want to see stuff that is romanticized, but after that we’re ready for more complication.

摩尔：我觉得在一个人的一生中总有那么一段时间，也许是六岁，他们会把世界浪漫化，但那之后他们就会变得复杂一点。

PHYLLIS NAGY, SCREENWRITER, “CAROL” There aren’t that many complex women on screen, and how depressing. If someone had asked me which Patricia Highsmith novel would you like to adapt, “The Price of Salt” [which became “Carol”] would not have been it, but I’m actually very glad, because it was actually a very radical novel about women. She presented two female characters who were utterly without guilt about their sexual choices. They are allowed to behave the way men would behave.

菲丽斯·奈吉(Phyllis Nagy)，《卡罗尔》编剧：银幕上没有太多复杂的女人，真是让人沮丧。如果有人问我，你最想改编派翠西亚·海史密斯的哪一部小说，我不会说是《盐的代价》（The Price of Salt，即《卡罗尔》原本），但我确实很高兴改编了它，因为它确实是关于女人的一部非常激进的小说。它呈现了两个女性角色，对自己的性选择完全没有负罪感。她们可以表现得和男人完全不一样。

NANCY MEYERS In [“The Intern”] we don’t really emphasize guilt. There’s been enough written about women’s guilt.

南希·迈耶斯：“（在《实习生》中），我们并不强调负罪感。关于女人的负罪感，已经有太多描写了。”

RON NYSWANER, SCREENWRITER, “FREEHELD” Whenever I’m in a meeting and an executive says this particular moment makes her unlikable, I just draw a complete blank. Likability is not really something that interests me. What I care about is audience identification, that you connect to someone.

罗恩·内斯万尼尔(Ron Nyswaner)，《被拒人生》编剧：每当开会的时候，有什么高管说，某场戏让女主人公显得不可爱，我都会觉得无言以对。我对“可爱”并不感兴趣，我只关心观众的认同，你能否触动别人。

CAREY MULLIGAN I think of Cate Blanchett in “Blue Jasmine,” that character is so awful and so fascinating to watch, you don’t need to like her. It’s infuriated me when I have had conversations with male directors — and I would never in a million years name names — but I’ve questioned an edit, and I’ve been told, “Well you just don’t like her.” And I’m like, “Well you just don’t like people a lot, and if you don’t show their flaws, you don’t show them as real human beings, so stop trying to cut out the ugly bits.”

凯瑞·穆里根：我觉得凯特·布兰切特在《蓝色茉莉》(Blue Jasmine)里的角色太棒了，太迷人了，你根本用不着去喜欢她。有时候和男导演交流让我非常愤怒——这样的时刻说也说不完——但是有一次我质问一个剪辑，得到的回答是：“这样你就不会喜欢她”。我说，“那你就是根本不喜欢人类，如果不表现出他们的缺点，你就不能把他们还原成真实的人，所以别把丑陋的部分剪掉了。”

MOORE Audiences want to see real people. I know I do. [Laurel Hester’s domestic partner] would tell me these stories when I would go to visit her: Laurel was very bossy. And if you were to talk to anybody’s partner, you’d hear about the things they love about them and the things that drive them crazy.

摩尔：观众想看到真实的人。我知道我想。在我去探望她（劳瑞尔·海斯特的伴侣）的时候，她给我讲了很多故事。劳瑞尔其实非常霸道。如果你想和别人聊他们的伴侣，你总能听到他们心目中伴侣可爱的方面，还有伴侣让他们抓狂的事情。

HATHAWAY So often when we see career women on screen, they’re unlikable. But Jules is all warmth and energy, really works hard and gets stuff done. And she is a young woman with a ton of responsibility and not a lot of life experience, so she’s making mistakes. I admired all of that.

海瑟薇：我们经常在银幕上看到事业女性，她们并不可爱。但是朱尔斯是个温暖活泼的人，她努力工作，把事情做好。她是个肩负重任的年轻女人，没有多少生活经验，所以她会犯错。我喜欢她的全部。

Do you think the status for women in Hollywood is changing?

你认为女性在好莱坞的地位正在发生改变吗？

ROBERT DE NIRO There’s a slow process where the change comes, sometimes generationally. I do see that it’s happening, but it won’t happen overnight. Look at my career, I’ve worked with Penny [Marshall], Nancy.

罗伯特·德尼罗：改变来得非常缓慢，有时候需要几代人。我看到这一切正在发生，但不会一夜之间就有彻底的改变。在我的事业生涯里，我曾经和彭尼·马歇尔(Penny Marshall)还有南希在一起工作。

PAGE We’re seeing changes especially in television. Look at “Orange Is the New Black,” a perfect example of an incredibly diverse cast with incredible actors, and I’m hoping that it’s becoming clear that people want to experience different stories and realities, whether it’s socio-economic, or racial, or sexual or gender identities.

佩奇：我们在电视上看到的变化尤其多。看看《女子监狱》(Orange Is the New Black)吧，它是一个完美的范例，角色完全是多样化的，演员也很棒，我希望这一点能够愈来愈清晰：人们希望体验不同的故事和真实，不管是从社会经济角度，还是从种族，抑或性向或性别角度。

MULLIGAN This is a great year for women. It’s nowhere near the number of roles that are available to men, but it does feel like a step in the right direction. Kristen Stewart or Jennifer Lawrence — people want to go and see these films with these really strong female characters at the helm, and you can’t deem them chick flicks anymore. So the audiences will go, but the industry hasn’t quite caught up yet. It’s stuck in a more sexist time.

穆里根：今年是女人的好年份。虽然女性角色还是远远不如男性角色多，但感觉确实是走在正确的方向上。克里斯汀·斯图尔特(Kristen Stewart)和詹妮弗·劳伦斯(Jennifer Lawrence)——人们希望看到电影里有真正强悍的女性角色处于主导地位，你不能再把这些片子当成小妞电影。所以观众会进步，但电影界还没有真正捕捉到这个趋势。它仍然陷在一个更加性别歧视的时代。

MEYERS Lately everyone is talking about [this issue], and that’s the best thing that could be happening. A friend of mine in her 50s just got her first chance to direct a movie; I don’t think that would have happened six months ago.

迈耶斯：最近，所有人都在讨论这个话题，这就是最好的事情了。我的一个50多岁的女性朋友得到机会执导她的第一部电影，我想这在六个月之前还是根本不可能的。

HATHAWAY I don’t think I can say there is change in Hollywood, but this movie got made, so we have at least one example of it. I think you are starting to see interest in telling a broader range of stories. Whether that actually translates specifically to material gains, I’m not sure.

海瑟薇：我不觉得好莱坞有什么大的改变，但这部电影拍出来了，所以我们至少有了一个典范。我觉得你们可以开始看到，讲述题材更为宽泛的故事，这是有利可图的。不管它最后能不能变成切实的物质经济利益，我不确定。

MORGAN Now you see someone like Donna Langley [the Universal chairwoman]. Not only are there very powerful producers but there are powerful actresses becoming producers, the Reese Witherspoons of this world, Sandra Bullocks.

摩根：现在你可以看到唐娜·兰利（Donna Langley，环球影业的女主席）这样的女人。不仅有大权在握的制片人，还有强势的女演员成为制片人，比如瑞茜·威瑟斯彭(Reese Witherspoons)，还有桑德拉·布洛克(Sandra Bullocks)

BLANCHETT Women who have been in the industry a long time are now producing themselves, like Angelina Jolie. She’s not waiting for roles to come to her. She’s proactively creating her own work. I think women get to a point where they can actually embrace the power, and that’s one of the biggest changes.

布兰切特：在这个行业呆久了的女人现在都在给自己制片，比如安吉丽娜·朱莉(Angelina Jolie)。她不再等待角色降临在自己头上，而是主动出击，给自己创造工作机会。我觉得女人现在可以去主动拥抱权力，这是最大的改变之一。

HATHAWAY I’m in awe of Nancy. I’m sure having a career in Hollywood over the past 30 years and being the smartest, funniest in the room and being a woman, maybe wasn’t the easiest, but she thrived throughout it.

海瑟薇：我很佩服南希。我敢肯定，在好莱坞摸爬滚打30年，成为屋子里最聪明，最风趣的人，同时又不失去女人的本色，肯定不是一件容易的事，但她做到了。

MULLIGAN [“Suffragette”] was a complete first in my career, working with that many women. We had a woman director, writer, producer, costume, makeup, a huge cast of incredible women. I’ve never experienced anything like it, really.

穆里根：我的事业生涯里还是第一次拍《妇女参政论者》这样的影片，和那么多女人在一起工作。我们有女导演，编剧、制片、服装、化妆都是女人，一大群了不起的女人。我从来没经历过这样的事情。

Talk about the economics of putting women front and center in films.

谈谈那些将女性推到最前面、作为中心的电影的经济效益。

BLANCHETT The films with women at their center are generally lower-budget, because there is lazy thinking. But if you look at those films, they’re passion projects. People lose confidence, because the traditional marketing numbers don’t add up to the progressive nature of the films.

布兰切特：以女性为核心的电影一般都是小成本制作的，因为人们有惰性的观点。但如果你好好看这些片子，会发现它们都是激情之作。人们对它们没有信心，是因为传统市场统计数字并不把影片的进步本质考虑进去。

NYSWANER A woman lead in a film, it’s just very hard to get that film financed. Two women helps, because then you can get an Ellen Page and a Julianne Moore, but people really do have mathematical formulas in which numbers are assigned to these elements. They look at what sells around the world — now foreign sales are as important as domestic — and it’s really frustrating, because they add up those numbers, and two women often don’t equal one man. What you do then is find people like our financiers and producers, who don’t care, who don’t add up numbers; they just love the movie.

内斯万尼尔：由女性撑起的影片是很难得到资金的。两个女人会有帮助，因为这样你可以得到艾伦·佩奇和朱丽安·摩尔，但人们确实有特定的数学公式，为各种元素赋予特定数值。他们在全球检测销售情况——现在海外票房和国内票房一样重要了——这确实很让人沮丧，因为他们只是把数字加在一起，两个女人通常小于一个男人。你要做的就是去寻找像我们的投资人和制片人这样的人，他们不在乎这些东西，他们不是简单地把数字加起来，他们是真心热爱这部片子。

MOORE Traditionally it’s very difficult to make money with dramas. They don’t make as much money as comedy and action films, so that’s another reason [women] can get relegated to the sidelines. You can be a woman headlining a drama that [makes] $50 million and nobody is going to get that excited about it. But look at this summer, Melissa McCarthy with “Spy” and “Trainwreck” [with Amy Schumer] — those movies made a fortune and those women are comic geniuses. And so suddenly are we going to see more of that? Time will tell, but it’s really about money.

摩尔：传统上，剧情片是很难赚钱的，不像喜剧和动作片那么能赚钱，这也是女人经常充当副手的另一个原因。一个女人主演一部剧情片，可能只赚五千万，没人会对这个感兴趣。但是看看今年夏天吧，梅丽莎·麦卡西(Melissa McCarthy)的《女间谍》(Spy)，还有艾米·舒默(Amy Schumer)的《生活残骸》(Trainwreck)——这些影片都赚了钱，这些女人也都是喜剧天才。所以我们会一下子看到很多这种片子吗？时间会告诉我们答案，但这确实和金钱有关。

NAGY Our industry is a little literal, so if a woman makes money doing a comedy, then we get 800 other similar comedies. What I really hope for a movie like “Carol” or other female-driven projects is that some of them make money, so we’ll see a spate of films that aren’t plot driven but are largely character based.

奈吉：我们的行业有点喜欢跟风，所以如果一个女人拍喜剧赚了钱，马上就会出来800部类似的喜剧。所以我希望《卡罗尔》这样的电影，或者其它由女性主导的片子能赚点钱，这样我们就可以看到一大批不是由剧情推动，而是建立在角色性格基础上的片子。

HATHAWAY The big question [with the forthcoming films] is, are they going to translate to box office success? One of the pressures of female-driven movies is, they have to perform. If they don’t, [the market might think] it’s not because the film didn’t work, it’s because it was about a woman.

海瑟薇：这些新片面临一个大问题：它们能被转化为票房的成功吗？女性主导的电影面临的压力就是，它们必须有良好的表现。如果表现不好，市场人员就会觉得：不是因为这部电影不好，而是因为它是拍女人的，所以不受欢迎。

In what other ways can Hollywood change?

对好莱坞来说，还有哪些途径可以做出改变？

SARAH GAVRON, DIRECTOR, “SUFFRAGETTE” For me personally, I wish there were more role models. I didn’t dare put myself forward until I recognized there were women like Jane Campion, Mira Nair, who inspired me to dare to do it. So I’ll do everything I can.

莎拉·加芙隆(Sarah Gavron)，《妇女参政论者》导演：对于我个人来说，我希望能出现更多榜样。我本来不敢把自己推向前去，直到看到简·坎皮恩(Jane Campion)和米拉·奈尔(Mira Nair)这样的女人，她们鼓舞了我的勇气。所以我也要竭尽全力。

DE NIRO If it’s a movie that you wouldn’t necessarily associate with, say, a women director — say, an action film — I think a woman hired to do an action film could do just as well if not better than any of the male counterparts.

德尼罗：如果这是一部与你完全无关的电影，比如说，一个女导演，一部动作片——我觉得女人来导演动作片可以和男导演拍得一样好，如果不是更好。

MORGAN Writing “Suffragette” has made me connect more to my own responsibilities as a screenwriter. How often have I asked a woman to take off her clothes and how often have I asked a man?

摩根：创作《妇女参政论者》让我更加体会到了身为编剧的责任。我有多经常让女人在片中脱衣服，又有多经常让男人脱衣服？

HATHAWAY I’m not looking to be an advocate for women in film. That being said, I do actively take an interest in not perpetuating stereotypes that hold women back.

海瑟薇：我并不指望成为提升女性在电影中地位的倡导者。我说过，我只是努力不让长期以来的刻板成见阻挠女性的脚步。

BLANCHETT When the director says you really need to be topless in this scene, I go, “Do I?” You have to fight back and claim the right to develop the character. Women need to empower themselves and claim even a character that’s written in a clichéd way. You don’t have to play it that way.

布兰切特：每次导演说，你得在这场戏里赤裸上身，我都会说：“真的吗？”你得反击，争取权利，去发展自己的角色。女人需要为自身赋权，甚至去努力争取一个以陈旧方式写出来的角色——到时候你不一定用同样陈旧的方式去诠释这个角色。

MOORE Vote with your money. If there’s something you don’t like, don’t go, don’t pay for it. And if there’s a female-driven movie out there that you want to see, buy a ticket. That’s really what makes a difference. My husband laughs at me, but I just won’t go see movies with only men in them. I just can’t bear it.

摩尔：用钱来投票吧。如果影片里有什么东西是你不喜欢的，那就不要去影院，不要花钱买票。如过你想看某部女性为主导的影片，那就买票去看。这真的能够造成影响。我丈夫嘲笑我，但我只是不想看只有男人的电影了，我受够了。