中国人炒热古董怀表市场
Daryn Schnipper is chairwoman of the international watch division of Sotheby’s. She spoke with Nina Siegal.
达琳·斯尼珀(Daryn Schnipper)是苏富比拍卖行(Sotheby’s)国际钟表部的主席。以下是她和尼娜·西格尔(Nina Siegal)的对话。At Sotheby’s, you’re known for making inroads in the Asian market. What has been the impact of Asian buyers?
问：在苏富比，你以打入亚洲市场闻名。亚洲买家们产生了哪些影响？
A. The Chinese were not buying from us even 10 years ago and now all of a sudden they make up a big portion of our sales worldwide, because there’s so much new wealth in China. That extends to the rest of Asia, too. It depends on where the sale is taking place, but in terms of bidders and buyers, Asian buyers can now make up a third to a quarter of our watch sales.
答：甚至在十年前，中国人还不是我们的买家，但是现在突然之间，他们成了我们全球拍卖会的重要组成部分，因为中国现在有很多新富。这适用于整个亚洲。这取决于拍卖会在哪个地方举行，但是从竞拍者和购买者的角度看，亚洲买家现在占我们钟表销售的1/4至1/3。
Q. What area of sales in particular?
问：哪个领域内的销售比较特别？A. I’ve been surprised by the interest in pocket watches, which have trended amazingly well in all these countries where they weren’t able to purchase them years ago because there wasn’t sufficient wealth. Right now, the Chinese are buying back many of the watches that were made for their market in an earlier time period, the 18th and 19th centuries.
答：亚洲人对怀表的兴趣出乎我的意料。怀表在这些国家的销售趋势非常好，多年前他们买不起这种表，因为那时候他们没有足够的财富。现在，中国人正在买回很多十八至十九世纪专为中国市场制造的怀表。Q. When did you notice that trend?
问：你是何时注意到这种趋势的？A. I would say around 2008 we started to really see a change. Until the mid-1980s, the whole market was pocket watches. Wristwatches weren’t something people generally considered a collectible, though there were some trailblazers, like Andy Warhol. But in the last 20 years, pocket watches became increasingly out-of-fashion as wristwatches became more and more in vogue. Then around 2007 or 2008, all of a sudden, you had the Chinese, who became heavily involved in the market for pocket watches.
答：2008年左右我们开始真正看到这种变化。直至20世纪80年代中期，市场上都是怀表。人们通常认为腕表没有收藏价值，虽然也有一些先驱，比如安迪·沃霍尔(Andy Warhol)。但是在过去20年里，怀表慢慢过时，手表变得越来越流行。然后在2007年或2008年，突然之间，中国人积极参与怀表市场。Q. What are Chinese-market pocket watches?
问：什么是中国市场怀表？A. If you’re looking for Chinese-market pocket watches, you’re actually looking for something that was made specifically for the Asian market, either in England during the 18th century, and then in Switzerland throughout the entire 19th century. The watches that were made for the Chinese market were called “Chinese caliber,” meaning that the mechanism of the watch consists of plates and bridges fashioned in a manner that would appeal to Chinese collectors and tastes, namely decorative with engravings such as foliate designs. For example, you’re looking at watches that had extremely beautiful enamel scenes, like a burst of summer flowers, or small enamel portraits.
答：中国市场怀表实际上是专门为亚洲市场制作的怀表，最初是18世纪在英国制造的，后来是整个19世纪在瑞士制造的。为中国市场制造的怀表被称为“中国品质”(Chinese caliber)，意思是这种怀表的表盘和表带设计符合中国收藏者的品味，也就是说具有装饰性，比如上面雕刻有叶子图案。或者怀表上有特别美丽的珐琅图案，比如盛放的夏花或者小小的珐琅肖像。Q. How have prices been affected by the buyers from Asia?
问：亚洲买家对价格产生了什么影响？A. The whole landscape has changed. For a while, your typical Chinese-market watch in a gilt metal case would sell for only $5,000, whereas today, it can sell for $40,000. Then you have an enameled gold watch with more features, like miniaturized figures that do something. The complicated designs might feature a whole carpenter shop, for example, with six or seven different figures, hammering, sawing or winding a mill. Those can easily sell for $200,000. If you add a singing bird to that mix, you can go from the half-million-dollar to the million-dollar category.
答：整个行情都变了。典型的镀金金属表壳中国市场怀表曾经只卖5000美元，现在它的售价是四万美元。还有更具特色的珐琅金表，比如有的表壳上面有一些正在干活的微型人物。复杂的设计可能包括整个木匠店，上面有六七个人物，有的在锤打，有的在拉锯，有的在研磨。那种怀表能轻松卖到20万美元。如果再加上一只唱歌的小鸟，就能卖到50万至100万美元。Q. What kind or prices did they fetch when they were first made?
问：这些表最初制造时的售价是多少？A. Hard to say, but they would have been expensive even then. For example, we had a rare open-faced watch made for the Chinese market from about 1860 by Louis Audemars, Brassus & Geneva, with specialized hunting scenes depicting an elephant, lion, horse and hunters. We sold it for $81,250.
答：这很难讲，不过即使在当时，它们应该也很昂贵。例如，我们曾有一个罕见的无盖怀表，大约是1860年左右路易斯·奥德马尔、布拉苏斯与热纳瓦公司(Louis Audemars, Brassus & Geneva)为中国市场制造的，上面有独具特色的狩猎场面，绘有大象、狮子、马和狩猎者。最后的售价是81250美元。Q. Where have these watches been since the 19th century?
问：从19世纪起，这些怀表都存放在哪里？A. They stayed in families, mostly. For China, during the late 19th century there were things that came out because of the opium wars and the Boxer Rebellion that were imported to the West. But because people couldn’t go there for such a long time during Maoist times there were lots of things that just never came out.
答：它们大多是被家庭收藏。19世纪末，在中国，因为鸦片战争和义和团运动，有些怀表出现在市场上，被卖到西方。但是在毛泽东时代，有很长时间里中国人不能去西方，所以还有很多东西从未露面。Q. Is the market increasingly competitive?
问：这个市场的竞争越来越激烈了吗？A. There are a great deal of Asian buyers, but it’s also given rebirth in interest in Western buyers. The competition is interesting. You have Swiss museums that are bidding for these things. In fact many of the companies that made these for export are now buying back for their own museums.
答：亚洲买家很多，但是西方买家的兴趣也被激发起来了。竞争局面很有意思。有些瑞士博物馆在竞拍这些怀表。实际上，很多当初生产这些怀表以供出口的公司正在为自己的博物馆买回它们。Q. How is the supply?
问：供货情况如何呢？A. You’re not going to have 100 Chinese-market pocket watches in a sale. You’re lucky to have five or six. They survive time pretty well. Some have had enamel restoration.
答：在一次拍卖会上，你不可能有100块中国市场怀表。有五六块就很幸运了。它们很能经受岁月的考验。有些怀表的珐琅得到重新修复。Q. Where are the buyers going now?
问：现在买家们有什么新动向？A. Chinese buyers who might have started to buy watches that were specifically made for their market in history have migrated to pocket watches that weren’t necessarily made for their market and that were not decorative but that have complications that do something other than tell time, like tourbillons for example, special escapements or perpetual calendars. The prices for those Patek or Audemars Piguet pocket watches have escalated exponentially as well. A typical minute repeater by Patek Philippe was in the $20,000 range in the 1980s at the peak, then went down to $6,000, and now is back up to in the upper-$20,000 to $30,000 category for the same watch.
答：开始购买历史上专为中国市场制造的怀表的中国买家们转向不一定是专为中国市场制造的怀表。它们没有装饰性，但有复杂装置和其他功能，比如陀飞轮(tourbillon)，它有特殊的擒纵调速机制，或者万年历。百达翡丽(Patek)或爱彼(Audemars Piguet)怀表的价格也快速上涨。典型的百达翡丽三问表在20世纪80年代的巅峰时期能卖到两万美元左右，然后价格回落至6000美元，现在同一块表的价格又回升至两万至三万美元。Q. Are a lot of Chinese collectors actually carrying pocket watches?
问：很多中国收藏者真的佩戴怀表吗？A. People don’t wear them. They’re collecting them. Wristwatches are what people wear. You must remember that these are things they didn’t have access to for a long time, and now they’re able to make collections of them.
答：他们不戴，只是收藏。他们戴手表。要知道，有很长一段时间，他们接触不到这些东西，而现在他们能收藏它们了。
